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Conservative civility watch

If you want to imagine the future, imagine a boot...


We’ve got their teeth clutching the sidewalk and out boot above their head. Now’s the time to curb-stomp the bastards.

From http://www.adamyoshida.com/2004/11/four-more-years-aka-take-that-you-sons.html - just one of many data points demolishing the ludicrous notion put forward by some conservatives that conservatives are champions of civil political discourse.

Comments (7)

Drammach:

Adam Yoshida is a self-described "ultra-conservative".. associating him with all conservatives is like associating Fidel Castro with all Liberals..
It is a totally unfair characterization of conservatives..
For every Adam Yoshida you wish to offer up, I will gladly offer up five "ultra-Liberals" with just as virulent opinions concerning their opposition..

"Adam Yoshida is a self-described "ultra-conservative".. associating him with all conservatives is like associating Fidel Castro with all Liberals.."

I will keep that in mind, thanks.

"It is a totally unfair characterization of conservatives.."
I don't think it is. I expect "Conservative civility watch" to become a very long series in no time.

"For every Adam Yoshida you wish to offer up, I will gladly offer up five "ultra-Liberals" with just as virulent opinions concerning their opposition.."
That's not my point. I think the jack-booted thuggery shown in Yoshida's post will be hard to match, but even if you do, that doesn't affect the point I'm trying to make, which is that conservatives make claims of being champions of civility that aren't backed up by the evidence.

Drammach:

Firstly, let me say that I enjoy the comic immensely.
Second, I enjoy reading the blog.. I find the the various topics on art, literature, etc., to be enlightening, entertaining and informative..
In many respects, we are kindred spirits..
I am not exactly conservative by my own standard, but am a constitutionalist..
I am actually quite liberal on the matter of free speech, press, religion..
But the Liberal - Democratic party in America is taking us down the path of Socialism.. and socialism is the path to ruin..
I believe that is why they lost this election. But they also lost because of their incivility..
Accusations of racism, warnings that a republican victory would result in churches being burned, blacks being dragged behind pickup trucks, elderly and children being starved and thrown into the streets..
I will grant you that there are some conservatives, ultra or otherwise, that are extremist, even un-civil in their views..
But I question that conservatives have made any claim to civility on their part..

The Liberal-Democratic party wanted to balance the budget. If that's socialism, sign me up. The Netherlands' right-wing government hasn't been able to do that, let alone the profligate Bushies.

The oppression that will follow won't concentrate on blacks but on homosexuals and dissenters. Joey Manley just mentioned on the Talkaboutcomics forums that he could theoretically lose his house because his mortgage is void under the new Kentucky hate amendment. He doesn't think it will come to that, but it could, and he won't have a leg to stand on if it does.

I've seen conservatives make that claim in several places. It's absurd; I don't even have to look actively for proof.

I should, however, clarify what I mean by conservatism, because I often refer to it approvingly. The short version is: if the shoe fits, wear it. There are conservatives whose conservatism consists of riding the status quo, being fiscally responsible, preserving existing national institutions, working with existing international organisations, keeping up military strength, that sort of thing. I have no quarrel with them. I do have a quarrel with the so-called movement conservatives that make up the Bush administration. They are a danger to America and to the world - and they are the ones that the bile in my posts is aimed at.

Drammach:

Liberal-Democrats and balancing the budget are election year politics and nothing more.. The only reason Clinton came close is a republican congress in his 2nd term..
Just to be clear, neither party is "fiscally responsible" with taxpayer monies.. Balancing the budget is not the problem, paying down the national debt is..

I am not familiar with Talkaboutcomics, or the Kentucky amendment you speak of.. I will take some time to look it up..
I assume it deals with the Marriage amendment..
Let me say this..
I have a lesbian freind who lost her partner to cancer some years back.. Her partner's family refused to let my freind visit her partner during those last days in the hospital, refused to let her attend the funeral..
I saw what those acts did to her.. I have no patience with that kind of hatred..
Many conservatives I know and correspond with on "conservative" forums are of the same mind.. It's none of their business, and not a concern..
Many are actually in favor of Civil Unions to protect the rights of same-sex couples..
Much of the fault for the Marriage amendments is due to the in-your-face activism of the extremist homosexual community itself..
Their court battles, and public acts of defiant marriage ceremonies set themselves up for a backlash by the public at large..
Bush administration attempts to promote a civil union solution to the controversy were summarilly dismissed by both the Democrats and the Gay Community, which has literally made the bed they must now sleep in..

I am guessing here, but you claim a statement I (and conservatives) made was absurd, you don't even have to look for proof..
I assume you are referring to the statements I made concerning incivility by the democrats, and threats / warnings made that conservatives would create racist acts, etc..
Those "claims" are not absurd.. They are actual campaign ads, televised on national television here in the United States.. I have seen them personally.. Add to that the threats of Bush bringing back the Military Draft.. I am sure you are familiar with that one..

As to what makes up a conservative, ( or a liberal for that matter ) there are many shades and colors..
As I said in my original post, I am a Libertarian more than a conservative.. but a conservative nonetheless..
Yet, I am opposed to the Patriot Act.. I believe it violates too many Civil Rights.. especially those dealing with rights in court of law.. additionally the 4th amendment search and seizure is violated, as well as elements of the 1st amendment. (freedom of speech, religious expression, petition for greivance.. )
I want to see a balanced budget, but even more, one with a proper surplus.. to deal with that national debt I spoke of earlier..
I want to see lower taxes, and if possible, a restructuring of the tax system.. A flat tax, or a National Sales Tax.. either would be more equitable than what we have now, which is simply a political football..
I want to see abuses of Social Security ended.. ( take care of those truly in need, get rid of payments to those that are just using the system for their own gain.)
I want to see Social Security funds reserved "by law" to the Social Security administration, and no longer accessible to Congress for "borrowing" whenever they have a spending urge..
I want to see Social Security funds invested properly, instead of short-term government bonds yeilding less than 2 percent on the dollar..
I want to see an end to an unfair government employees retirement and pension system that gives privileges and benefits that are not available to employees-citizens in the private sector...
I want to see Illegal Immigration ended, our borders properly patrolled and laws enforced.. I welcome Legal Immigrants. Those that come lawfully, contribute, and obey the laws of our country..
I want to see our 2nd amendment rights restored.. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a part of what made our nation free and keeps it that way... It cannot be dismissed..
I want to see the Federal Government get out of Education altogether.. It has no constitutional mandate, no authority to be involved in the schooling of our children..
I want to end religious censorship and protect religious expression.. That cuts both ways, for all religious beliefs.. No one has a "right" to be offended by someone else's religion.. or lack of it...

This is quite a rant, but I wanted you to have some idea of what/how I believe.. where I stand..
Some of my views would be considered "offensive" by conservatives.. some by Liberals... some by all... ( I can't be all things to all people, wouldn't even try )

At any rate, I will continue to read your comic, ocassionally shake my head in exasperation at some of your comments, but in general, if I may, I would consider you freind..
Even if we sometimes disagree..

Live Long and Prosper.. ;o)

Quick response (I'll say more later):
Drammach, I forgot to thank you last time for putting up with me. Let me do that now. You seem a decent sort, not the kind of movement conservative I've got - let's say I've got issues with them.
The claim I intend to refute is not one that you made, but one that I've seen on Carson Fire's forum and elsewhere before I started blogging. It was essentially that the left were always uncivil, and the right was always civil. That *is* absurd. Nothing you said was, though.
Also, I was struck by the response from the right to a Charles Brooker column in the Guardian a while ago, in which he wrote something that many on the right found beyond the pale. It probably was, but many of the same people would cheer at the eliminationist rhetoric of Ann Coulter, Grover Norquist and others.
I think incivility and spleen actually have a place in public discourse. Sometimes one has to vent, or rub people's faces in unpleasant facts. But reading the two comments I've cited so far, it struck me that the people expressing them were so drunk with power that they revealed an ugly, fascistic side of themselves, and that that needed to be highlighted.

Drammach:

Ho,ho... I would agree with that..
If you will forgive the language, It is my firmly held belief that in any demographic group, if one were to apply the Bell curve, one would find a certain percentage of "assholes"..
That goes for conservatives and democrats in equal proportion...

Unfortunately, they are often the ones that gravitate to positions of power and / or exposure, thus we see more of them in the broadcast media, in public politics, and quoted in the press..

That is unfortunate, because it gives all of us a distorted view of the "opposition"..
We are not seeing our political opponents in their true light, but often as a grossly exaggerated caricature, evoking a visceral response...

The average liberal or conservative is more open to listening to different views, willing to compromise, more adult in their logic, comprehension, learning and experience.. A discussion can ensue, rather than an argument, a shouting match..
But that makes for very boring news stories..
And I am sure you have heard the old newsman's addage, " if it doesn't bleed, it doesn't lead. ".

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